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Me hate? Maybe…..

April 1, 2008

Update: In the middle of the post – I made a comment about the map that superimposes Nema Predaje over it and mistakingly stated that the map shows all of Bosnia and parts of Bulgaria included in it – I was wrong, wrong, wrong.  Goran has left a comment in which he informs us that the map is of Kosovo.  The map is of Kosovo – we all make mistakes but I have to say that this was awful on my part.

I started this post before spring break but just got to complete it now.  Sorry – I was looking forward to skiing in Colorado a little more than writting 🙂 

Over the past two days, I’ve been having visitors from  Delije are fans of the Crvena Zvjezda soccer team (translated Red Star).   This was the referal that lead to Nidza’s comment:

Oh, poor you and your muslims… She showed three fingers and now you’re going to commit suicide? Does it hurt when you see the salute? Im glad if it does, because this just shows that you hate me and my people, because of them being proud of what they are? You know what, is a Serbian child of 5 years a murderer if he shows the sign?? You should be ashamed, the time when everyone was sorry for you is over, nobody gives a shit about what youre saying because THOSE DAYS ARE OVER, i am Serb, one of my best friends is bosniak, born in Sarajevo, me born in Belgrade, ive never argued with him about the war, I know that he has his thougts about serbs, and i have mine about bosniaks, but ive never said anything against him for being proud of his origin or religion! And why would Marija react on her salute? SHE IS SERB FOR GODS SAKE?! Thats what Serbs do! Whats next, Serbs shouldnt wave their flags anymore??? youre pathetic

It seems that my “One Person’s Pride, Another Persons Pain” has caught their attention as it was posted to a thread where they are seemingly debating the origin and possibly doing away with the three finger salute below is the comment transfered to “latinica” from cirilica (cyrilic) and then translated (maybe Nidza could learn a thing or two from his comrades):

“Pa nisu simboli nacije, obrati paznju na pocetak teme I mnoge postove koji to dakazuju.  Tri rasirena prsta je uveo Vuk Draskovic kada je pokrenuo svoju politicku kampanju pocetkom devededestih.  Tada se narod identifikovao sa tim jer je Vuk u jednom trenutku bio predvodnik Srba nacionalista, a to je u period kada je krenulo nacionalno budenje nakon dugog perioda komunistickog sna, tako da je to olako prihvaceno bez prevelikog udubljivanja.  Ne verujem da je to Vuk podmenuo nego  da je spontano izabrao neki symbol koji ce ga odbojiti od ostalih I uciniti prepoznatljivim, mada kad vidimo danas kakav je postao ne bi me nista ni cudilo… U svakom slucaju tri rasirena prsta nemaju nikakva utemljenke u nasoj istoriji niti su ikada ista predstavljali, dok su ustasima, vatikanu, nacistima I ostalima ocigledno predstavjali nesto.  Sa druge strane, sa tri spojena prsta, kao kad se krstimo, zaklinjala se srpska vojska, I predstvljaju sveto trojstvo, dakle naseg boga.  Nema razloga da ne zavrsimo sa ovim pozdravom kad pogledamo sve fotografije od prve do pete strane ovog topika .. Mi tu mozemo da odigramo veliku ulogu jer ono sto zapocinu navijaci obicno se prosiri na siroke narodne mase… znaci, neki informator na velikoj utakmici moze znacajno da preokrene stvari.”


Well, they are not a symbol of nationalism, pay attention to the beginning of the thread and the many posts that show that.  Three spread fingers was introduced by Vuk Draskovic when he started his political campaign in the beginning of the nineties.  At that time, people identified themselves with that because at one time Vuk was the leader of Serb Nationalists, and that was during the period of national awakening after a long communist dream, which led to the easy embracing of this symbol without any deep thoughts.  I don’t think Vuk intentended this, he spontaneously picked a symbol which would differentiate him from the rest and give him popularity, although if we consider what he’s become .. nothing would shock me. (samaha’s note: see wiki – it’s very complex – on one hand he organized the Serbian Guard paramilitary unit to distancing himself from them to calling upon the citizens of Bosnia to reject nationalism and being the first Serbian political figure in Serbia to openly point to crimes commited by Serb forces)  In any case, they (three finger salute) have no roots in our history nor did they ever represent anything, while they did represent something for the Ustase (Croatian ultra-nationalists/expansionists), the Vatican, and the nazis.  On the other hand, with three fingers held together we cross ourselves, the Serbian army swears allegiance, symoblize the holy trinity, our god.  There is no reason not to be done with this gesture after seeing the photographs from the first page to the fifth page (samaha’s note: pictures throughout the thread show nazis, ustase and various religious pictures which show three spread fingers).  We (soccer fans) can play a huge role in this because trends started by fans typically spreads to the masses, therefore a sports commentator at a large game can definitively turn the situation around.

That’s quite an interesting comment comming from a person who’s post contains this image:

The words imposed upon the photo translate to “No Surrendering” (my bad from here on – the map is actually of Kosovo) – the colored portion of the map includes all of Bosnia, includes Kosovo and while this is a very very poor map, it looks as though it’s extending into Bulgaria.  Now, since I’m not quite sure of the origins of this map and slogan and it is comming from a poster on, a soccer fan club – I’m going to have to leave it for someone else to explain – there is a comments section – use it if you want it cleared up but I suggest you keep it civil.  I do not censor or delete comments and I am not making this suggestion for my sake – it is for your sake because your words will remain on this page as long as this blog exists so use them wisely.

So, anyway, the intention of this post is not to criticize this map, which may not even symbolize that which makes me want to go into the bathroom and puke my brains out, but to focus a bit in regards to extremism of another fan club that I ran accross while trying to find the origin of the above map (no success in finding the explanation).

From Family of Serbian Fans:

This is the poster that the particular fan club (which also has some sort of musical affiliation) took out for Kosovo – KOSMET = kosovo metugorje.  The english translation reads “Ahead for Kosmet” but the cyrillic states: “Glavu za Kosovo” which translated means “Head for Kosovo” – meaning that they’ll give their head for Kosovo.  And yet the rappers affiliated with this sports organization are outraged that they’re being referred to as the Serbian Al-Qaeda.   Yeah.  Okay.

To further distance themselves from being the Serbian Al-Qaeda, in an interview:

A long time ago we filled the police book but no one can stop us from publicly loving Serbia.  Metrosexuals cheer with balloons and maybe that’s necessary for someone but without us Serbian knights it don’t have the right atmosphere.

Family of Serbian Fans aren’t Delije or Grobari or Radovci.  They are all of that combined and much more than that.  They are Serbian Knights whose mother is Serbia, second after God, above family, friends and clubs.  That’s why with the blessing of the Serbian Patriarch Pavle they always cheer for Serbia and it’s best sons in all sports. 

I find the combination of the KOSMET campaign and those statements to be pretty darn scary.

Still, truth be told, I don’t hate Serbs for being proud of who they are.  I don’t hate Serbs in general.  I judge each person as an individual.  I will tell you what I do hate, though, and that is hate and supremacy.  I admit, I am bigoted towards bigots.  So tell me Nidza – what do you have to say about this?

11 Comments leave one →
  1. April 2, 2008 4:14 am

    The words imposed upon the photo translate to “No Surrendering”

    Would “No Submission” be a valid translation?

    the colored portion of the map includes all of Bosnia, includes Kosovo and while this is a very very poor map, it looks as though it’s extending into Bulgaria.

    I’ve seen maps like this before… though, in a different region. It’s pretty clear what it means.

    I admit, I am bigoted towards bigots.

    Me too.

  2. April 2, 2008 6:37 pm

    Konservo – yes submission is a better translation. The word means to hand over, to give, to transfer, to surrender – I just couldn’t think of the proper word – thanks much!

  3. April 2, 2008 7:17 pm


    In that case, it’s referring to Islam. Sadly, as you know, these Serbian nationalists have developed an intense hatred and paranoia of anything and everything having to do with Islam.

    Great post, btw 😀

  4. April 2, 2008 7:33 pm

    I’m not sure that is the case. I think this paranoia/hatred against Islam is an artificial creation that is being exploited these days because of world events to gain sympathy. It’s a nationalist expansionist project – one that would include Croatia (Catholic) if it could.

  5. April 2, 2008 11:26 pm

    Oh, I definitely believe it is exploitation. But it seems very similar to the mantra of some American critics of Islam: “lan astaslem”



    Perhaps it’s just because I’ve seen and heard this repeated in so many places (due to the fact that I myself could be described as a ‘right-wing’ blogger) that I am reminded of it by the phrase above.

  6. April 3, 2008 2:14 am

    lol – that was pretty good. the only thing is that the use of this word isn’t as associated with Islam as the words submit and submission are here in the US.

  7. April 4, 2008 9:24 pm

    Ah, I see.

    I must admit, the few Russian words and phrases I have picked up from my sister (most of which I have forgotten) is the extent of my acquaintance with the Cyrillic alphabet (yet, those letters which have been adopted from Classical Greek I can usually decipher… maybe 😀 ). It looks to me like the Cyrillic would be pronounced roughly “nema predaia” (with the ai being a diphthong pronounced like the English “aye”?) or perhaps “predaye” (grouping the J with the E possibly pronounced like the Russian “Я” ?). As far as the meanings and connotations of these words, I am at a loss.

    It also looks like I need to practice posting broken links 🙂

  8. April 5, 2008 12:34 am

    cool! it is “nema predaje”. While I have retained most of the cyrillic alphabet, a few of the letters I had really struggled with. The only reason I even remember it is because I had to learn it within a couple of days and for one year – my homework and notes had to be done in cyrillic for one week and the following week would be latin letters. Half my books were in cyrillic as well. Now if only the French and German languages would come back to me as easilly as cyrillic and arabic letters do!

  9. April 19, 2008 3:32 pm

    Dang, I didn’t realize all that was still going on! I guess it’s just not in the news anymore. May Allah grant peace to the Kosovars.

  10. goran permalink
    September 2, 2008 4:04 pm

    If anyone is still reading this, i’d like to correct some mistakes introduced in post and previous comments

    The map shows only Kosovo. That is the colored part of it. So, there is no entire Bosnia or Bulgaria in it, nor any other country. You can easily google for, say, flag of independent Kosovo, to see that contour matches.

    The message is that Kosovo is Serbian.

  11. September 8, 2008 10:22 am


    Thanks for the comment – at least the people who have posted comment to this post have the opportunity to see your comment and to have this straightened out. I will update the post at the top to reflect the mistake that I have made.

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